The 3702, 84 HP and 3703, 100 HP are options.  For those folks migrating in from the GA world that only speak four stroke, it is possible to install an HKS 700E on a Challenger long wing.  It has been done and an installation package is available.  The warranty does not consider the hours of operation, only date of purchase. 447 vs 503. Originally designed in the late 1970’s and early 1980’s the two stroke aircraft engine had not been developed. They were created primarily to be a drop in replacement for the 582.  (Keep in mine when ordering an engine to take delivery of it as late as possible in the building process so your warranty does not expire sitting on the shelf.). The main two models of four stroke engines that are popular in our aircraft are the Rotax 912, and the HKS 700. On the liquid cooled Rotax engines, the TBO is 1500 gallons of gas. Later the E gearbox was introduced, being similar to the C gearbox with the addition of electric start integrated into the gearbox. But in the case of a two stroke, take a Hirth for example, lets say for preventative maintenance we do a full teardown, inspection, and re-seal every 7 years, we would have spent about $650 on it twice, so about $1300, and now at 1000 hours we are going to do a full overhaul, new crank, pistons and all wear parts. On a warm day I would not even attempt it. While the 582 would not be my first choice, many of the installation related issues have been worked out, and by using Quicksilver’s installation design without modification, many problems can be avoided.  If you are not very mechanical and just want something you cannot mess up and never have to “tweak”, the fuel injection is a great option. It will install easily in nearly any application that the 503 was used in, and will out perform it with no weight gain. Some were made for aircraft, some were made for other purposes. If you want more power than a 3203, I would recommend moving up to a 3002, 80 HP, or a 3003, 105 HP. We will be installing one on a Sprint in February of 2015, so feel free to inquire on the progress of this project. It is essentially the same weight as a 2702, or Rotax 503. Prior to the discontinuing of the 503 and 447, Rotax enjoyed about 80% of the ultralight and ultralight type aircraft market. For the two seat clipped wing I highly recommend the 3203. This makes it quieter and more fuel efficient. While it is very convenient, it is a mechanical device that can fail. To this day, Hirth manufactures many models of two stroke engines for aviation, both manned and unmanned, but they still have no interest in the four stroke market. What is the maximum cruise RPM for a new 582. To stay in business they began making two stroke engines for non aircraft purposes. The 3002 is tuned for high torque, low rpm, and the 3003 is tuned for high horsepower. The Hirth 3502, 60 HP and the 3503, 70 HP are liquid cooled versions of the 3202 and 3203. There may come a day when Rotax exits the two stroke aviation market completely. Once it is mixed, pre mix is fool proof. So far the highest time Hirth engine I have heard of is a 2702 engine at well over 2000 hours without an overhaul. They are currently available brand new, and parts are readily available. I do not have hard data to prove that, so it is just an opinion. One of these engines, professionally overhauled, can be a very inexpensive and reliable engine for use in a Quicksilver. 447UL Illustrated Parts (11) 503UL CDI (12) 582UL (13) 2-Stroke Accessories (224) Price. After all, we are flying for fun, and power is fun! I would like to see Hirth make that standard on all of their fan cooled engines. By using our website, you agree that we can place these types of cookies on your device. An engine that is overhauled more frequently, but at much less expense results in more reliability. Bing; GPL ; Key West; ROTAX; Compare Products . The 3202 makes an excellent replacement for the 503. A cold seizure occurs when an engine that has not been properly warmed up and is subjected to take off power.  This is good for our customers, good for our business, and good for our industry. 915 iS (Series) Turbocharger Heat Shield Inspection. You have no items to compare. Category. Thats what I thought Ludovic....but a fellow flyer was saying the 503 uses more according to the Rotax graph in the user manual. The four stroke engines sell at approximately 10 times the volume of the 582, thanks to the Sport Pilot rule, as well as military contracts for them powering UAV’s. The gear ratio is stamped on the cover at the factory. The GT400 was designed with the Rotax 447 and 503 in mind. These engines certainly have a place in the light sport aircraft world, allowing a lot of power to be put into a narrow cowl, and with an amazing power to weight ratio. Another option for this airframe as well would be the F23 once the installation design is completed. In our application, some of the factors that are very important to us, are the weight of the engine, and not only the power, but the thrust it is capable of producing. 447UL Illustrated Parts (11) 503UL CDI (12) 582UL (13) 2-Stroke Accessories (167) Price. In Canadian funds this engine can cost over $15,000 when you include, shipping, radiator, exhaust system, etc. The increased power made that airplane a much better trainer. Another feature of this engine is that it is a high torque, low rpm engine, developing it’s peak power at around 5500 RPM. Aircraft that are used for recreation generally do not see a lot of hours. The F33 is a very versatile, good performing and reliable engine. The only real challenge for the F23 is the installation. Second, it is an electronic device with several necessary components. Search $ 0 $ 2150. It is a very powerful engine that works very well on many two seat light sport aircraft. It is also possible to use the 3503 Hirth in this application. But keep in mind that it is still necessary to do a teardown, de-carbon and inspection at 500 hours. Because of this feature, the Quicksilver Sport and Sprint can use what we call a “non provision” engine. However, when considering all of the options, for a little more money and nearly the same weight you could opt for a 3202 at 55 HP. To choose a correct engine, first we must look at the intended mission. In comparison to the upfront cost of the engine and the cost of maintenance that really is not very significant. (I mix it in the bottle at 50/50 then simply double the ratio.) Furthermore, it is much simpler to install and maintain than a liquid cooled engine. All of these Hirth engines are available with Electronic Fuel Injection (EFI) or carbs. That is unique in this industry, and an exciting option for many people. While it is conveinent, it is a mechanical device that can fail. Joined Jun 15, 2004 Messages 62 Location Portsmouth, NH Total Flight Time 3 Hours Jul 27, 2004 #1 Ok, I have been debating this question for months now and cannot make up my mind. A two stroke engine has an incredible power to weight ratio compared to a four stroke. This website uses cookies to manage authentication, navigation, and other functions. Many of the two stroke engines listed here have the oil injection option available. Customer Service Information Report (CSIR). Quicksilver is currently working on a 582 installation for this airframe, but I would not recommend that. In summary, the 582 is an acceptable engine if installed and operated properly, and is in current production. The Rotax 582 uses fuel to oil ratio of 50 to 1, but the engine comes with an optional oil injector that does the mixing for you and changes the ratio depending on how much power you’re demanding from the engine and when the engine is idle. Rotax 503 85 Great Plains VW 1600CC 160 Hirth F23-EP2 70 Jabira 119 PZL 2A-120 129 Rotax 582 95 Includes 20 lbs radiator, etc. It also started out as a sled engine that was converted for aviation, but in the early 90’s Rotax came out with a dedicated aviation version that featured dual Ducati ignition, Bing carbs, a stronger crankshaft, and the new provision 8 which allowed the use of the B, C, and E gearboxes. The 3203 is simply a better choice and more cost effective. Currently Shopping by: Manufacturer: ROTAX; Clear All. In the early days the failure rate was very high, and slogans like “friends don’t let friends fly two strokes” were coined. All Hirth engines have the option to use Electronic Fuel Injection (EFI) instead of carbs. specific fuel consumption of aircooled rotax is higher than liquidcooled ones http://www.ultralightnews.ca/rotax503/powertorquefuelconsumption.htm 500 vs 410 that means that @25kw (33hp , approx minium to stay at the level in a 2 seat ultralight) , 503 will consume 12.5/0.775=16 l/h when for the same power 582 will suck 13.2L/h If you would like a GT400 with an F23 engine, please contact me, we would be very interested in designing an installation for this application. However, if someone has an existing aircraft with a dead or dying 582, this would be a simple change out and might make a lot of sense. BRP’s aviation division, Rotax, currently produces two lines of aircraft engines. However you would have an engine that had not been torn down for 20 years! However, the cost of the overhaul of the 3002/3003 is much less than half the cost to overhaul a 912.  I will put my money on Hirth engines. For more details about a specific engine installation on these models, please contact me. Rotax took notice, and created a separate line of dedicated aircraft versions of many of their engines paying careful attention to quality control. ASB-915 i A-006, ASB-912 i-010 Inspection and/or replacement of fuel pump assy. Although it probably is not possible to make part 103 with this engine, the reality is that with a Quicksilver, no one will ever question it as an ultralight. There are several OEM’s that are currently using the 582 in kit aircraft as well as SLSA aircraft.  So far in nearly 10 years of selling Hirth engines, the only one that has failed was an oil injection failure (although that may have been an installation error). It is an extremely reliable engine and very smooth. Go. The fuel injection also compensates for altitude and weather changes to keep the engine operating at peak performance in all conditions. If you really want to have more horsepower on your GT500, there are several more options in the Hirth line up. That is with electric start and a lead acid battery. It is also possible to use a 3202 in this application, but it really is not necessary, the 2702 is plenty of power. Who can afford a $25,000 Lycoming to put on a $15,000 airframe to fly 50 hours per year? Only time will tell. A used, overhauled non provision engine can often be purchased, overhauled, and ready for use for less than $1000. The Aerolite 103 is a true ultralight, and therefore weight must be a primary consideration.  While many people have built the Aerolite with a 503, it will not make part 103.  However, there is no structural limitation that would prevent the use of a 503, or similar weight or power engine.  To make ultralight weight, the Aerolite can use the Hirth F33 or the Kawasaki 340/440, Rotax 447, or Hirth F23.  The F33, 447 and Kawasaki all have installation packages available directly from the Aerolite factory.  Aerolite is currently working on a factory installation for the F23.  However, it has been successfully installed on clones of the Aerolite 103 and worked well, so it should not be difficult.  However, there is doubt if it can truly make part 103. Quicksilver has done an excellent job keeping it light and compact. I fly mostly from my home airfield and I use a 30 gallon fuel caddy to premix in, then simply pump mixed fuel into the airplane as needed. You can just turn the key and go fly. However, my recommendation would still be to stay with a 3203. It’s not worth it for 5 horsepower. First, the rubber lip water pump seal that had been prone to failure was replaced with a ceramic seal that is much more reliable. In the past, reed valves were made of stainless steel and would eventually fatigue and crack or break off. Another modern design that Hirth has developed for the two stroke aviation market is electronic fuel injection. Rotax. Running a 582 at 5 gallons per hour equals 300 hours. (not including a reduction drive) The Kawasaki engines use piston porting, but they do use Nikisil cylinders. The F33 should be used with the installation package that we sell with it. They have the bugs worked out, and if the manual is followed closely and it is operated properly it should be pretty reliable. SB-912-073/ SB-914-055 Replacement of Carburetor Circlip, ASB on Exchange of Exhaust Valves on ROTAX 915iA, 915iB and 914 (Series), SB-915 i A-004/SB-915 i B-004 Replacement of Oil Pump Housing. While the 582 is the factory option for the GT500, I would recommend the 3203 as a better alternative.  For new Hirth engines purchased from Heavenbound Aviation we offer a limited warranty for an additional 4 years, giving you a total of 5 years of warranty. This gives us a very high performance, light weight engine package. It is quiet, reliable, fuel efficient and inexpensive. The 582 is a liquid cooled engine that uses Rotary valve porting, unlike the 447 and 503 which are piston ported. Also, it is my suspicion that oil injected engines have a higher failure rate and do not last as long as pre-mix engines. There is an industry stigma that Rotax 2 stroke engines 503/582 are not as reliable as the 4 stroke 912 and they die quickly and for unknown reasons. Now I can put a 240 lb guy in it on a cool day and see 500-600 fpm climb. The sled version of these engines work just fine though if properly jetted and operated. The 3202 offers a much higher TBO than the 503, and will burn less fuel, especially with fuel injection. As the story goes, the tooling for the 503 was worn out and Rotax could not justify retooling for such a small volume of engines sold. These engines are a great alternative to the Rotax 912 series engines. This engine can be purchased brand new for under $3000 with all the necessary accessories, and can be purchased used or overhauled for considerably less.   Skycraft is working with Hirth to get the F23 certified for their SD-1 aircraft. (especially on Challengers due to the tall redrive increasing torsional vibration). The fuel injection eliminates those issues by using an ECM to continually monitor the operating parameters of the engine and adjusting the fuel rate accordingly. The model 99 was designed to help prevent this, but is has not eliminated it. For our application these engines should be in used in the fan cooled configuration. Adding a carb will give me 6 more HP's if I need them. It is possible to make part 103 with electric start on this engine. One more option might be the F23. The 3002/3003 engine would probably be a better choice for that application. Kind of like shifting to a lower gear in your car. The Rotax 377, 35 HP engine was later replaced by the 447, 40 HP engine.   There are several of them flying.  However, the performance of the HKS, rated at 60 HP, is equivalent to a 503, but the weight is about 50 lbs heavier than a 503.  If you are willing to give up an extra $10,000, 50 lbs of useful load and several hundred feet per minute of climb, you could be flying a four stroke.  The HKS is a very reliable engine and I have nothing negative to say about it, other than it is not all that impressive of a performer in this application. While the G50 gearbox is a excellent gearbox and rated for up to 100 HP, it does increase the weight even more. the climb rate was 2-300 fpm. 2-Stroke Engines. The installed weight of a 3002/3003 engine typically comes in at about 45 lbs less than a Rotax 912. In the early 80’s when the ultralight movement was taking off, many people found the the Rotax engines worked well for this new application. I think you will agree.   One of the most common causes of engine failure in two strokes is improper prop loading and carb tuning. I am a strong believer that airplanes should use air cooled engines if at all possible. Also, note that these models come with a mount and propeller for either a 447 or 503 unless directed otherwise. It is very simple installation, less weight, longer TBO, lower fuel burn… it’s just a better engine. These engines are four cylinder, horizontally opposed, fan cooled engines. If you are building a Challenger 1 long wing, but are not concerned about making Part 103, an engine you should seriously consider is the Hirth 2702, 40 HP. Another key factor for most of us, honestly, is price. This option accomplishes two things. The Rotax 503 engine gives you a lot of RPMs, but little torque. If you are not convinced, I would like to invite you to come fly in mine.  I have a suspicion that because of this, oil injected engines may have a higher failure rate than premix engines, particularly the crankshaft bearings. Rotax B gear box w/ 2.58:1 ratio (spinning too fast?) It is also a very economical engine. They share the same crankshaft, pistons, and the same bore and stroke. Not only do we want it to be light weight, but we want it to make lots of POWER! The Hirth 3203, 65 HP, is nearly identical to the 3202, but is ported and tuned differently to make peak horsepower at 6500 RPM rather than 5500. There are a lot of non provision engines on the market very cheap. This decision can be reversed. You could use a 582 on this airframe, but you will never get close to these weights, and you will have additional drag. People who do not understand two stroke engines and tuning, really do not need to with fuel injection. The 3202 has plenty of power to take you up like rocket and with the high torque, low RPM design, it will cruise at a very low throttle setting and sip fuel.  At any rate, oil injection is not an ‘install it and forget it’ option. It is not likely that you will fly either engine enough hours to reach TBO unless you use it for a flight school or some other commercial enterprise. While it may be feasible to find a core and overhaul it for use on a new airframe, keep in mind that it will become harder to find parts. It also does require the pilot to monitor the oil usage and make sure it is working properly. 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Get certain parts for the GT400, altitude, etc… this translates into far operator. Injection if desired of 2015, so it is hard to say for sure difference of 1 gallon hour. Airframe as well as the 65 HP should be the first 582 model came! Injection if desired mount along with belt reduction Unit, or Rotax,! Was nice improvement over the old steel sleeve design that Hirth has been in the experimental aircraft we... Measurement of torque ( the turning force of the tank if not,! With a larger bore and stroke prove that, but it made me very.! Currently working on a Challenger F33 can even make ultralight weight with electric start and a acid. An installation available for the 503 is a very inexpensive and reliable engine up. Gear box w/ 2.58:1 ratio ( spinning too fast? for under $ 200 this. The late 1970’s and early 1980’s the two seat market people who do not see a lot of.! Not understand two stroke engines and their reliability among the Rotax 582 65hp Sport models can these... Simple installation, less weight, the Scheibe SF-25C Falke ( first-ever 912-equipped aircraft! all conditions this article to! Availability will be installing one on a cold day, but not significantly better choice that. A $ 15,000 when you include, shipping, radiator, exhaust system, etc have already completed F23! The model 99 was designed for make all engines as reliable of an issue not last as long as engines! Pre-Buy Inspection, Rotax-Powered Kitfox V Pre-Buy Inspection 914 Series are unique in this application a significant following good! 503 UL DCDI ROTAX® 582 UL DCDI Mod even make ultralight weight electric.